Umbreon

[Shark]

I am sorry for not being 'conventional' in my approach on all my pokemon. I would much rather use as unique stratagys as possible to make the game more interesting. (For instance, I have a Scizor that does NOT bullet punch spam with a life orb.)

[NinjaDeathStrike]

That's all well and good, but it means your team hay have weaknesses that can be exploited. Umbreon did that. It doesn't mean that it's uber.

[Shark]

what I am saying shouldn't be, and you are suggesting, is you have to have a pokemon (or set of) to take down an umbreon. I say this is wrong.

[NinjaDeathStrike]

No I'm not suggesting that. I'm suggesting that you have a set that can deal with a slow stallers. A very common strategy of which Umbreon is only one member, and not even the best.

[Shark]

Name more slow stallers, and I'll tell you if they are that bad.
BTW I've faced both blissy, snorlax, and milotic before and had little trouble with them

[NinjaDeathStrike]

If you can deal with Blissey and Snorlax than you can certainly deal with Umbreon. What did you do against them that you didn't against him? I've listed twice defensive pokemon that are harder to deal with than Umbreon, check my above post. Anyhow here you go:

Bliseey (any set)
Snorlax (rest, curse, body slam, crunch)
Suicune (rest, sleep talk, calm mind, surf)
Cresselia (any set, especially one with moonlight)
Uxie
Celebi (with recover and calm mind)
Tyranitar (Curse, although choice sets can be really bulky too)
Swampert (Curse)
Dusknoir (pain split, wil-o-wisp)

I think you just got stuck by your own rule of not being able to switch out during battle. The only thing you needed to do was bring in Gallade and scare it away. He is the perfect counter to Umbreon, even with a curse, Umbreon should be OHKO'd. If you let it step up on you, well that's not really Umbreon's fault.

I'm not denying that Umbreon isn't a great pokemon. It certainly is, and it can be very hard to bring down, but you're putting it on par with Mewtwo, Kyorge, and Palkia. I think that is an over reaction. Again, just becuase a pokemon is tricky to deal with or annoying that does not make it Uber. Umbreon has waaay to many checks and counters to be considered uber (including the #1 most used pokemon in the game scizor).

[Shark]

Hmm. Since all legendarys are banned from gyms, lets narrow the list a bit.
Blissy I took down, doing decent damage even with spatk, Snorlax I took down, doing devent with physical, Tyranatar, took down, doing decent damage with all types of moves, Swampert, stood no chance.

Ok. With this aside, that brings me to another possiblility that I overlooked, and jumped to this poll. Perhaps this is NOT a legit pokemon, for this thing's defences were uncanny. (think using a regularly effective attacks to take down a lvl 30 pokemon with a lvl 20 pokemon)

[NinjaDeathStrike]

How did you bring them down? Who did you use. Just saying you beat them with no details of the battle at all doesn't really help. Umbreon shares the same weakness (fighting) as Blissey (btw if a Blissey was brought down by spark it was probably not EVd at all) and Snorlax, with less overall defense (because of their monster HP stat). Any method that took them out should be able to take Umbreon out. It's possible that it's hacked, but without some real detail as to the circumstances, there is no way to tell.

[Shark]

For all of the ones I mentioned I was using my gym team. When I used psychic on my espeon vs blissy, I did about 1/3 damage, when I used Psycho Cut on snorlax it did about 1/6 damage (about what I expected given my Gallade's history), and like I said I used my Fullmetal and earthquake, and didn't do 1/8th damage (probably about 1/12 of the max hp per use)

[NinjaDeathStrike]

Well that Blissey was definitely not EVd properly. It's kind of hard to claim you didn't have a porblem with the others when you weren;t in the same situation. If Fullmetal got stuck fighting that Snorlax (or god forbid a curse Swampert) it might not be able to do anything to them either.

What is the attack stat of Full Metal? If you tell me I can do a damage calc (assuming Umbreon had EVd it's maximum legal HP and Def) and see how much damage a legit Umbreon should have taken. If Fullmetal isn't EVd and Umbreon is, then it really would have been like fighting something 10 levels higher than you.

[darkfire006]

Shark: was that my pokemon?
i didnt really ev.....................
i gave the meds but other wise.............

[Shark]

Only for the blissy, Dark, I was refering to Neut's snorlax.

Also, all of my gym team is EV'd. Dunno the atk stat, its lvl 36 really xD.

[Mike]

yea didnt ninja say u could kill it with snorlax with any sets but neutrals snorlax was beaten

[NinjaDeathStrike]

Jun 25, 2010 14:19:12 GMT -5 Mike said:

yea didnt ninja say u could kill it with snorlax with any sets but neutrals snorlax was beaten

It wasn't beaten by Umbreon.

[TheShiningGyarados]

Lapras. Don't forget about Lapras.