State of PLO discussion (please read)

[NinjaDeathStrike]

Hello everyone,

As some of you may know, we've had a rather lively debate going on over the last few days about what direction our current ban list should go. Some of us would like to be able to hone our competitive skills more and follow a more case-by-case banlist, and some of us want to focus less on the overtly competitive aspect and more on the training of regular pokemon and battling in a legend free environment. It's clear that these sides are not going to be able to agree on an ubers list.

In addition, our current system of gyms is inactive and unproductive. Many leaders aren't on, and there are few challengers due to our small numbers.

I've talked to Neutral about both of these problems come up with a compromise, or at least the basis for one. I'm proposing a complete overhaul of the system here at PLO. No more gyms, no more E4. Members aren't on and we can't even agree on the rules of play. Instead I propose we split the battling part of the site in two. One section will focus on the competitive environment, the other on the casual aspects. Members will still be able to compete in both parts, but may choose to only play in the environment that suits their play-style if that's what they want.

I thought we could set it up something like the Frontier Park, with several 'Frontier Brains' for both sides. The number will be fewer than 12 (the number needed for a complete league) but can grow as we get more members.

What I need is ideas from all of you. How do you want this to work? What suggestions do you have? What should the set-up look like?

PLEASE post your ideas here, but do not start fighting. Any personal attacks will immediately earn you a warning. This isn't the place to discuss what should be banned and what shouldn't. No matter which side of the argument you support. You can contribute your ideas here to help us put together something that YOU want to play.

I'll be posting my ideas shortly, please post yours as well.

[metal_coat]

Would this mean a transfer of Gym Leader and E4 titles to Fronteir Titles?
I agree that it would be an easier 'medium' to regulate battles and ensure that Leader and E4 inactivity will not be an inconvenience for new members.

You could even make it so that if the frontier brain is beaten by the same member 'x' amount of times then they are required forfeit their title to the member. To ensure that regular activity is retained and also so people aren't so easily bored or become uninspired. Just to let you know, I have witnessed this system of play before on other sites and it seemed to run quite smoothly, allowing the site to moderately expand its members base annually.

Would the fronteir titles be typed-based? Or should they be set or skill based?

~MC

[NinjaDeathStrike]

Yes active leaders would have first dibs at Frontier positions, and the format you suggested sounds like something strongly worth considering. Brains would probably be themed, but not necessarily typed. Similar to how the E4 works now.

[Pope]

This is a great idea. I would miss the gym leader and E4 positions, but the change could bring a bigger impact to PLO. I don't about the split Frontier though. I remember about the issues about too much work and time efforts on the part of some of the Admins/Moderators of PLO in the past. I think if there was just 1 Battle Frontier with 12 Battle Frontier Brains and 1 Battle Frontier Champion, that would be good enough in my opinion since there is already a decrease in activity currently.

Here are a few ideas, Admins/Moderators can re-modify the ideas as you see fit, so don't be so quick to disagree as the idea could be a blueprint to a even better idea.

1.) Name Change of PLO. How many Battle Frontier Brains?

If you are going to start a Battle Frontier, or Frontier park, maybe the new name should be PLO Battle
Frontier, just a thought. 12 Brains, 1 Battle Frontier Champion.

2.) PLO policy on Legendary Pokemon:

If PLO Moderators/Admins want to keep the legend banned/uber list as is, that's fine. If not, allow each Frontier Brain to have 1 legendary Pokemon on their team (it can be only non-ubers or banned Pokmon like Darkrai, Mewtwo, etc.

3.) How does one become a Frontier Brain?

Same as with gym leaders and E4. If a Frontier Brain cannot fulfill their duties or is gone for a long period of time without a valid reason, then a tournament should be held. To decrease time on this, just set the rules for the tournament, and the winner becomes the new Frontier Brain. (However, Metal Coat's format seemed better and more structured).

4.) Battle Frontier Themes:

Similar to how gym leaders and E4 Members have themes currently. Champion can use any types of Pokemon and not restricted to one theme.

5.) Battle Format for Battle Frontier

This should be 6 vs. 6, but that's what I prefer. Maybe battle frontier brains should up with their own. 2 vs. 2, 3 vs. 3.

6.) Change of Gym Leaders and Elite 4 Members.

All 12 would become Battle Frontier Brains with symbols instead of badges, nicknames like Pyramid King,
or Sky Palace Guardian for example.

7.) PLO Champion change:

A challenger must have at least 7 Battle Frontier symbols to challenge the champion. If defeated by a fellow Frontier Brain, the former champ becomes a regular frontier brain. Haven't came up if the Battle Frontier Champion is defeated by a none battle frontier brain though.

8.) Battle Frontier Symbols:

To replace gym badges, battle symbols are crated. The battle frontiers symbols should be based off of life
principles instead of elements like gym badges, but either is fine. For example:

Truth Symbol Scale Symbol
Brave Symbol Knuckle Symbol
Power Symbol Shadow Symbol
Fate Symbol Inferno Symbol
Heart Symbol Frost Symbol
Spirit Symbol Hydro Symbol
Champion Symbol Diversity Symbol

9.) Battle Location and Nicknames

Locations and Nicknames

Battle Pyramid, Pyramid King
Battle Forest, Forest Guardian
Battle Sky Palace, Sky Prince
Battle Dome, Dome Performer
Battle Ocean Shrine, Ocean Priest
Battle Dragon Palace, Dragon Dancer
Battle Dark Cavern, Cavern Lord
Battle Dojo, Dojo Master
Battle Ice Castle, Ice Doctor
Battle Psychic Tower, Psychic Villian
Battle Factory, Factory Fixer
Battle Jungle, Jungle Wildman
Battle Spa, Spa Director

10.) Challengers do not have to go in a particular order.

Please keep in mind, these are only ideas to contribute. I will come up with more, but this is what I have thus far. Metal Coat had some great ideas with his format too.

Can we keep our themes as gym leaders and Elite 4 Members? I assume we would start over basically since badges won't be valid anymore right?

[Sir Derpington III]

Perhaps all those frontiers could have their own set of rules as well, if that is the case.

[Pope]

Good point. Similar to the current state as gym leaders and E4 Members. Now could they create their own rules against PLO rules or it has to be under PLO rules has before Neutral?

[Silver]

Part of the Frontier idea i would like to propose that a frontier brain has some kind of test to see if they deserve to battle the brain. May that be questions that they have a certain time limit to answer (So they cant look up the answers) or maybe they have to solve a puzzle (Like the rpg style, like a maze, switches, etc.)

I know it may not seem practical it would be cooler to see them having to go through a test instead of just asking to challenge.

[Shark]

Jul 17, 2011 17:32:11 GMT -5 Pope said:

This is a great idea. I would miss the gym leader and E4 positions, but the change could bring a bigger impact to PLO. I don't about the split Frontier though. I remember about the issues about too much work and time efforts on the part of some of the Admins/Moderators of PLO in the past. I think if there was just 1 Battle Frontier with 12 Battle Frontier Brains and 1 Battle Frontier Champion, that would be good enough in my opinion since there is already a decrease in activity currently.

Here are a few ideas, Admins/Moderators can re-modify the ideas as you see fit, so don't be so quick to disagree as the idea could be a blueprint to a even better idea.

1.) Name Change of PLO. How many Battle Frontier Brains?

If you are going to start a Battle Frontier, or Frontier park, maybe the new name should be PLO Battle
Frontier, just a thought. 12 Brains, 1 Battle Frontier Champion.

2.) PLO policy on Legendary Pokemon:

If PLO Moderators/Admins want to keep the legend banned/uber list as is, that's fine. If not, allow each Frontier Brain to have 1 legendary Pokemon on their team (it can be only non-ubers or banned Pokmon like Darkrai, Mewtwo, etc.

3.) How does one become a Frontier Brain?

Same as with gym leaders and E4. If a Frontier Brain cannot fulfill their duties or is gone for a long period of time without a valid reason, then a tournament should be held. To decrease time on this, just set the rules for the tournament, and the winner becomes the new Frontier Brain. (However, Metal Coat's format seemed better and more structured).

4.) Battle Frontier Themes:

Similar to how gym leaders and E4 Members have themes currently. Champion can use any types of Pokemon and not restricted to one theme.

5.) Battle Format for Battle Frontier

This should be 6 vs. 6, but that's what I prefer. Maybe battle frontier brains should up with their own. 2 vs. 2, 3 vs. 3.

6.) Change of Gym Leaders and Elite 4 Members.

All 12 would become Battle Frontier Brains with symbols instead of badges, nicknames like Pyramid King,
or Sky Palace Guardian for example.

7.) PLO Champion change:

A challenger must have at least 7 Battle Frontier symbols to challenge the champion. If defeated by a fellow Frontier Brain, the former champ becomes a regular frontier brain. Haven't came up if the Battle Frontier Champion is defeated by a none battle frontier brain though.

8.) Battle Frontier Symbols:

To replace gym badges, battle symbols are crated. The battle frontiers symbols should be based off of life
principles instead of elements like gym badges, but either is fine. For example:

Truth Symbol Scale Symbol
Brave Symbol Knuckle Symbol
Power Symbol Shadow Symbol
Fate Symbol Inferno Symbol
Heart Symbol Frost Symbol
Spirit Symbol Hydro Symbol
Champion Symbol Diversity Symbol

9.) Battle Location and Nicknames

Locations and Nicknames

Battle Pyramid, Pyramid King
Battle Forest, Forest Guardian
Battle Sky Palace, Sky Prince
Battle Dome, Dome Performer
Battle Ocean Shrine, Ocean Priest
Battle Dragon Palace, Dragon Dancer
Battle Dark Cavern, Cavern Lord
Battle Dojo, Dojo Master
Battle Ice Castle, Ice Doctor
Battle Psychic Tower, Psychic Villian
Battle Factory, Factory Fixer
Battle Jungle, Jungle Wildman
Battle Spa, Spa Director

10.) Challengers do not have to go in a particular order.

Please keep in mind, these are only ideas to contribute. I will come up with more, but this is what I have thus far. Metal Coat had some great ideas with his format too.

Can we keep our themes as gym leaders and Elite 4 Members? I assume we would start over basically since badges won't be valid anymore right?

Pope, Here's my responces:

1. I don't think a name change would help PLO at all, I believe our search location on google would be reset, and we've come so far on that.

On the point that (IMO) should be seperate, we'd be having a smaller frontier than league, so 12 people is just too many. We'd have a smaller number.

2. Legends: This point I think is the double edged sword, part of the reason this idea was proposed was to keep as many of the members happy with the set of rules, so having this would be counteracting that (IMO). Also I just don't like this suggestion much, but this is my opinion.

3. I agree MC's plan for it seems better, and I'm not sure if it's posted here but I think like a 'best of X challenge' would be the best way to rotate out brains. (Like if a challenger gets the best of 5 battles, they take the spot).
On this same point, the plan is that the active league members (Leaders, E4 and Champion) get dibs on the spots.

4. From what I remember, current plans are themes like the E4 ones will be used for all of the brains.

5. Assuming a similar set up for each brain's area, each brain would beable to decide how it is. (Silver's current theme is 1v1)

6. Symbols if we do it 3rd gen style, and plaques/plates or whatever they're called if we do it 5th gen style.

7. With the smaller league of only active brains (mentioned in point 1) and the policy on keeping them active/skilled (point 3), Collecting all of the symbols to challenge the champion would not be neer as much of an issue, so I believe the full set will be needed.

8. I agree, and it'll be up to the Brain, and we won't hold anyone to a mold. (Similar to naming badges, and the whole gym name and whatnot)

9. Same with the last point. (I do assume that you aren't suggesting we have a list that people can chose from, but these were just in case)

10. Again if we have the same set up as now for the order, the going in any order would be assumed.


I have my own suggestion, while I'm posting:

Like in the games, there could be two symbols awarded to each player: a silver, then a gold one. It wouldn't be hard to make the symbol or whatever a bit fancier for the second one.

[chaosruler10]

I'm with pope's idea

[Shark]

Oh Silver: I think that idea would make it more interesting, but it'd allow a lot of cheating on the brain's part and may be plain annoying.

[chaosruler10]

Unless we make it simple

[Silver]

Well there would be no point if we made it simple

[chaosruler10]

But what if some people get frustrated if they couldn't get the challenge done. That would be a downer for people getting a challenge to the frontier brain.

[Pope]

Response To Shark:

1.) A name change would be consistent with the objective of PLO. A name change could entice new and future players to PLO. Since techically, we wouldn't be a league hence the traditional Pokemon League is 8 Gym leaders, 4 Elite Four Members, and 1 Pokemon League Champion. If we change the whole structure of PLO, why not add, not change Battle Frontier?

If we have a small league as you say, and have a smaller number of Battle Frontier Brains, where would other league members go? (i.e. Other gym leaders and Elite 4 Members). How would we select who could be a Frontier Brain Shark? Whereas all league members have already earned their stripes. I think 12 would be the best number to combine The 8 Gym Leaders and 4 Elite Four Members.

2.) Legends, a double edge sword that can go either way. I wouldn't have a problem with either way even though I don't care for legends in battles. I just have a issue with banning non legendary Pokemon like Garchomp or Volcarona despite stats.

3.) I have heard from a few Admins/Moderators about having to do too much work when it comes to changing up certain aspects of the league constantly. I read before a rule when PLO first started that if a gym leader is defeated, then that challenger can take there place which has been changed of course. Wouldn't that be a similar issue if a Brain is defeated X amount of times by a challenger? It is a good idea don't get me wrong, but it's up to the Admins/Moderators since they would have to do most of the work on this one anyhow.

4.) Who is to say a theme couldn't be like one type of Pokemon? I don't think a theme should be just based off of what Elite 4 does. As I recall, the Brains didn't really have a theme to be honest, it was a choice of their favorite Pokemon (check out on serebii.net - click on Pokemon Emerald and Pokemon Platinum on the left under video games for what I am speaking of).
Confining Battle Frontier Brains to themes is isolating the "diverse" usage of Pokemon when you think about it.

5.) I agree with, a brain can choose their own set up if it is acceptable under PLO rules first and approved of just like before with Gym Leaders, Elite 4 Members.

6.) Symbols sound better to me than plaques or plates. Medals or Trophies would even do naming the prize a challenger would earn from defeating a Frontier Brain.

7.) "IF" the Battle Frontier is set to be small fine. but if not, 7-8 symbols would be needed to challenge the champion. I think this would allow more choices for challengers. If we just have 8 Frontier Brains, what about the other individuals who were either a gym leader or elite four member? I would be offended if I wasn't selected after what I earned to be a gym leader and I sure others would feel the same Shark. So again, the number should be 12.

8.) Agreed.

9.) A list, no. I was giving suggestions and examples of battle frontier brains locations and nicknames for those that might want ideas.

10.) It wouldn't be assumed if I just became a new PLO Member. Most don't read the rules first before becoming a member Shark. It's not safe to assume anything just because you and others might know the structure already of PLO. NEVER ASSUME!!!

Reply to your Suggestion: Both Symbols should be identical, not fancier for the second one. Just one silver, and one gold. In addition, maybe the rule for if a Battle Frontier Brain that is defeated by a challenger X time should be 3 times. 1 defeat - earns the challenger the silver symbol, 2nd defeat the gold symbol, and the 3rd defeat the third defeat, you lose your battle frontier position. Now, keep in mind, all battle frontier brains must be consistent with there battles, meaning, don't string
along or stall a challenger that has beaten you twice and you are in fear of losing your Battle Frontier position. This rule only applies for regular challengers, not those who are already Frontier Brains that battle each other.

Hope this would help pushing PLO in the right direction for creating a Battle Frontier. Talk to you soo fellas.

[Silver]

Reply to Pope:
I dont think we should change the name. Reason being is not many people would search "Battle frontier online" And that part is only to gain more members.

Other than that I agree with almost everything else, but the stuff i dont agree are somethin that dont bug me too much. Other than that i agee.

Reply to Chaos: Well then they ask to challenge again. its just like the one rule gym leaders have of losing a battle and having to wait. And most people when taking challenges are on for a long time so u may be able to get it done the same night.